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Old 04-20-2016, 01:01 AM
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3x19: "CAPE MAY" Episode Discussion Thread (04/21/16 @ 9PM)

3x19 | Cape May
E P I S O D E DISCUSSION T H R E A D



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episode synopsis
A mysterious beauty on the run from unknown assailants accidentally crosses paths with Reddington and enlists his help to fight back against her attackers.
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Old 04-21-2016, 10:49 AM
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Thanks for starting this Kris.

Enjoy the episode everybody!
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Old 04-21-2016, 05:59 PM
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Thanks Kris for the thread!
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Old 04-21-2016, 10:59 PM
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Well.

I must admit the notion that it was all in his head did occur to me partway through, but I'd forgotten about it by the time it was revealed.

I think we're supposed to assume that Katarina Rostova is really dead now. But since Red's mind just inserted him into what he knows of her final days, he could be wrong...


Oh, and the first episode with a title other than the name of a blacklister (and no number).
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Old 04-21-2016, 11:50 PM
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I knew it was going to be a hallucination the moment Red walked out of that Opium Den. Then the woman on the beach. I knew it for certain when she walked into the water.

It was good, don't get me wrong. Red seeing Katerina again gave him closer, at least for that choice.
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Old 04-22-2016, 02:26 AM
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This episode was one of the most brilliant ever of the show. I loved it so much and I'm back with my love for the show.

First of all, James Spader's performance... Damn it

I somehow thought it really predictable though. Maybe because of all we already knew about the episode. I was expecting it to be a hallucination and I expected her to be Katarina

I so loved the combination of getting answers about the past and about working through what has happened with Liz in the present... The story about Liz and her mom and how Red had to choose between them and him choosing Liz, the child back then. His subconsciousness told him that he made the right decision back then. But it also showed us that he is blaming himself completely for what has happened. And this is soooo sad. He thinks he's failed Liz completely and that hurts. And knowing that now he feels dead. It breaks my heart.

And what he had to say about Liz It was so touching... And he loved her! She was his life, she was his heart Wow, I didn't expect that coming from him.

What I really respected was Tom being the only one that's life he spared although he thought he deserved to die. Just because of Agnes, because of Liz. It's been the reason for him not having killed him yet and we finally got the spoken proof. We assumed that of course but it was nice to hear.

Did somebody else think it strange how Katarina said 'The father...' when Red told the story about Liz, Tom and Agnes? What was this about? I can't shake it off, feels as if it's more important than we think.

Really important as well was the necklace for me! I want to know what's in there? So that's what Katarina had left of her father? I'm sure she was really close to him, had lost him or whatever... I'm really wondering. And I somehow think that we'll see the necklace again.

ETA - And who is the person that Red needs to see?
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Old 04-22-2016, 06:23 AM
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While I finally figured out that this was a hallucination/nightmare, I was totally confused until that point. I totally agree that Spader was awesome - he always is but he out-did himself last night.

I wonder about the necklace too - ironic that the old guy found it at that precise moment.

Also I'm glad we finally know for sure that Liz's mother is dead. Or is she??? You never know with this show! And I wonder how long before we see Liz again??
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Old 04-22-2016, 06:53 AM
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What an awesome episode. We have answers that cause more questions. Kris I agree with everything you said

Was he at cape may the whole time and the opium den and cab part of the hallucination/flashback? And I have to say what a way to do a flashback. That was perfect.

I couldn't decide if all of that with Katerina was actually what happened all those years ago. Was he truly there when she killed herself and unable to get to her in time or not. I kind of thought it was what really happened and he was with her. That would explain his certainty that she was dead.

I believe he and Katerina had a true connection. They were alike and recognized that in each other although I don't think Red betrayed his family for her. I think he chose to save Masha and couldn't save Katerina and her suicide as he said put him in something he could not walk away from

Oh and his analogy on suicide any suicide being a terrorist attack on those closest to you was positively brilliant and beautiful

While watching Katerina I thought her word choices odd and then to realize it was Red talking to himself made that part make more since.

Kris I think there's more to the father statement as well especially since her first words to Red were about Liz shooting her dad

Yes this episode was an amazing mix of the past blending in with his present. I believe Red went there because he felt dead. Was he considering suicide? I don't know.

Katarina said the people would never stop coming for her so she chose to end it to save her daughter. Maybe Red feels the same.

Finally if Liz is faking this I will be truly upset with her. Honestly I think even if mr Kaplan is doing this for good I still think I'm going to be mad at her. Red doesn't deserve this.

I want to know who he's going to see. Has he decided to see the baby????

It was amazing to see red so lost, drunk at the beginning of the show walking in front of a cab. He could barely walk straight. And he had this cough like he was sick in shock. Wow what a show.
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Old 04-22-2016, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Also I'm glad we finally know for sure that Liz's mother is dead. Or is she??? You never know with this show! And I wonder how long before we see Liz again??
Sue, you know, I was wondering about it at the beginning as well. But honestly, I think she really is dead. You remember him talking to Katarina (kind of talking to himself) and telling her that he had the choice, saving the girl or letting them both die. And he decided to save the girl. So I guess that Katarina really is dead He never even said that he had the chance to save Katarina back then. It was just these two choices.
And since he wasn't able to save Katarina because she wanted to kill herself (should would have done that at any possibility there being and Red knew that), he decided for Liz and did that. I'm convinced that Katarina really is dead. I always was for that matter because Red wouldn't lie to Liz. And he told her she was dead.

Quote:
I wonder about the necklace too - ironic that the old guy found it at that precise moment.
Oh yes, I was wondering about the timing, too

Quote:
Was he at cape may the whole time and the opium den and cab part of the hallucination/flashback? And I have to say what a way to do a flashback. That was perfect.
It was brilliant, right? I think there couldn't have been a better way to do it.

Quote:
Oh and his analogy on suicide any suicide being a terrorist attack on those closest to you was positively brilliant and beautiful
This indeed was breathtaking! I think the most honest, the truest TBL has ever come up with. And honestly, I don't really know if he might have considered a suicide at some point. Although he said that it was a terrorist attack on those closest to you and he still has Dembe and Mr. Kaplan... I doubt that he ever really considered it. He knew what it meant since he experienced it from Katarina at some point in his life. I don't think he really considered it.

Quote:
Kris I think there's more to the father statement as well especially since her first words to Red were about Liz shooting her dad
She mentioned Liz shooting her dad? Oh man... Too much information for me again in this episode. What exactly did she say? Which context in?

Quote:
Finally if Liz is faking this I will be truly upset with her. Honestly I think even if mr Kaplan is doing this for good I still think I'm going to be mad at her. Red doesn't deserve this.
Oh yes! Me, too... And still I kind of doubt that she is faking this. You know, I'm wondering why she never was happy. He said that she never was and that he had failed her. But he did everything he could to make her happy. Honestly. He saved her, he gave her everything, he even loved her so much. It's so heartbreaking to know that nevertheless he thought she was never happy. Was she really never? I somehow don't want to believe that... It's so sad.

Quote:
I want to know who he's going to see. Has he decided to see the baby????
You think it's Agnes? Wouldn't that be too easy?
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Old 04-22-2016, 08:06 AM
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When whey were lying in front of the fire, katarina said something like"it wasn't the way it happened or even how it happened, it was what I said to him right before it happened.

Yes it is probably too easy for him to be going to see the baby. I don't know who the

Also where was the cab if he really bought it and drove it there then where was it??

I have watched this episode twice and still don't think I have caught every thing that was said and happened.

I have been reading reviews and one talks about how the piano was still playing on the background when red was talking about tom. I missed that totally. So he was sitting there playing the piano the whole time. Okay again this episode was brilliant.
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Old 04-22-2016, 08:13 AM
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When whey were lying in front of the fire, katarina said something like"it wasn't the way it happened or even how it happened, it was what I said to him right before it happened.
Right! So now there's a new question for me... Did Katarina really kill herself to keep Liz safe or did she kill herself because of what has happened to the man she loved? Was she really that weak? You can't really tell by how the episode went by. It could have been both. Although Red told Lizzie twice that she died in weakness and shame and that she died because she couldn't live without him. You recall that?

What do you think she said to him right before it happened? Do you think we heart that in the fire flashbacks from Liz?

Quote:
Also where was the cab if he really bought it and drove it there then where was it??
The cab confused me, too

Quote:
I have been reading reviews and one talks about how the piano was still playing on the background when red was talking about tom. I missed that totally. So he was sitting there playing the piano the whole time. Okay again this episode was brilliant.
That's at least something I caught But yes, he was playing the whole time when he kind of 'told' that story... When he thought about it I guess. Man, this episode somehow is manifested beneath my skin.

Quote:
Yes it is probably too easy for him to be going to see the baby. I don't know who the
I really have no idea either... Not even a glimpse of an idea...
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Old 04-22-2016, 08:58 AM
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I think red has been angry about her suicide this whole time and felt she did it in weakness and shame but I think now because of what has happened to Liz he sees the suicide in a new light. I think maybe now he sees that she felt she had no choice and had to protect her daughter. The whole what would you do question stood out for me. She was on the run she had men after her. Liz would never be safe. Just like Red.

I could never tell what was said in the fire flashbacks. Liz thought they were arguing about the fulcrum but we don't know what Katerina said to him.
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Old 04-22-2016, 09:54 AM
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wow, this was a boring episode... predictable, boring etc. The whole point of Red choosing Liz over her mother could be explained in every other episode in a five minute segment...

Hallucination/dream episodes are great or bad, there is no in between.
This didn't work for me, and I was hyped for this EP!

The suicide argument was the only good thing about this episode for me.

Peace out.
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Old 04-22-2016, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by believer14 (View Post)
wow, this was a boring episode... predictable, boring etc. The whole point of Red choosing Liz over her mother could be explained in every other episode in a five minute segment...

Hallucination/dream episodes are great or bad, there is no in between.
This didn't work for me, and I was hyped for this EP!

The suicide argument was the only good thing about this episode for me.

Peace out.
Oh thank you! I thought I was the only one not blown away by this and that there's something wrong with my perception. While Spader's acting was out of this world, I felt the episode dragged on. But that's just me and I only wish I could have enjoyed it as much as most of you.

Besides I missed the rest of the cast - Cooper, Ressler, Amar - all of them.
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Old 04-22-2016, 01:23 PM
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So here's a wild theory. Red found the necklace from katarinas dad. Could the person he's going to see be her father. I also wondered if her father is going to turn out to be the man who told Liz about her mother?

Btw how would red know that katarina took the necklace off if he wasn't there when she did it?

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