[Lauren Helen Graham]

5x09 | Ruin
E P I S O D E DISCUSSION T H R E A D



Banner by Miranda

episode synopsis

WINTER PREMIERE. Liz (Megan Boone) abandons her old life and seeks out a fresh start in a place where no one knows her history, her name, or the depths of her grief. When an unexpected threat finds her, she is forced to draw on her emotional and physical strength in a brutal fight for survival.

[Miranda]

Thanks for starting this Kris! Can't wait to see it!

[Fangirl49]

Not a horrible episode but certainly not a favorite.

It was good to see Liz use her profiling skills and read the situation. And good to see her use her training to survive. Did it unnerve anyone to see her smile after she killed the last bad guy? I'm scared she's a little too far gone now.

She named her dog Kate. I hate that she still cares for Katte. Also she's trying to be like Kate, I think with the way she cleaned up the scene and left no traces. I hated them killing the dog.

Sitting around while the team recounts memories of Tom.... awkward.

I liked the use of flashbacks and wonder how much time has passed.

So has Red not been giving the team cases? She made him promise to do that so what has he been doing. Why hasn't he found Garvey?

I can not believe she walked away from Agnes. And gave her to Scottie. I guess the writers found a way to get the child off the show. But really. I'm with Red here. She tried to kill you. Plus Red has been raising her. Talk about taking the knife and twisting it. She is unbelievably cruel.

Liz acts like she's the only one who's ever been thru a tragedy. But look at ressler. Look at Scottie. Look at Red. They've all been there. I do believe Red is seeking revenge but he knows enough to try to turn Liz around. I wonder if at any time losing Tom made her think of what she put Red and the team through with her fake death.

[Miranda]

It wasn't really what I expected but it wasn't bad. It didn't come anywhere near Cape May though.

I liked that we got some flashback and I hope that we will continue to get them throughout the rest of the season. The only thing bugging me is that I don't have a timeline. I want to know how long it has been. How long Liz has been away and lived at that cabin.

I was happy to see that Liz used her profiling skills as well and that she outsmarted all of these guys. In the promo it looked like she was going after Tom's killers but that wasn't the case. I do think that she officially crossed to the other side. She is never going to be the person she was.

She called the dog Kate..

So now we also know that Agnes is living with Scottie. But I don't understand that she put Agnes in Scottie care. I would have liked to see Red taking care of her. Marilyn, can you as a mother, understand why she asked Scottie to take care of Agnes?

I missed all the others.

Maybe Red did found Garvey but since we haven't seen much of Red this episode, we just don't know it yet.

[Fangirl49]

Agnes had grown a lot. I thought she looked around 4 and guessing a Two year time jump?! At least a year and a half including the ten month we know of

No I don't see giving her child up and certainly not to Scottie. She's a criminal too and probably not as able to keep her safe as Red.

I saw an interview with Megan where she's defending Liz giving my up the child saying Red did the same thing. But Red did not.

You know I'm still a doubter about him being Lizs dad. But IF he is, he was injured in the fire. And Kate took Liz to Sam. Then sometime after a Red recovers, Katarina kills herself. So we have him recovering then finding Katarina. We also have Katarina telling him how unsafe Liz is. We have Red still in trouble with this agency as well and facing danger from them. I do believe they killed his family. So with all the danger and Red being accused of treason he was not in any place to raise Liz.

Liz on the other hand has lost her husband and wants revenge. Period. I don't see where Agnes is in any more danger than usual. I don't see any other circumstances causing her decision other than revenge. So no I don't understand it. Am I making sense?

Another thing I thought of. And yes I know it's tv. But your average person does not have money to just walk away from a job. So how is she supporting herself. I don't believe her and Tom having lots of money.

[Miranda]

I don't get that she gace Agnes to Scottie either just so that she could go get revenge. She also said that Agnes felt that Liz was so angry and upset. Of course she feels that but if that is a reason to give your child away.. even if it is just for a while.

I really hope it is not such a big time jump but Agnes definitly looked like she was 2 or 3. I hope we find out how long it has been and how long Liz was away.

I don't think she and Tom had a lot of money either of maybe Tom had a good life insurance and that payed out because he died?

[Fangirl49]

If your child senses your feelings it means you need to get yourself under control.

[Lauren Helen Graham]

Ooookay... All in all it was a good episode, better than I expected.

I really liked Liz being out there alone, really all on her own, and meeting these guys and using her profiling skills. At least SOMETHING finally! Guys, I hope it'll continue that way.

But that's where it ends already... WTH??? She gave Agnes to Scottie. What a crap was that I give up ever understanding this woman because honestly, I never will because she couldn't be farther from the person I am. I'm not sure anymore if I shall cry or laugh...

The dog and her name being Kate and all the referenced regarding Kaplan soooo sucked and it made me angry. It's a joke, really... Considering that Kaplan caused all of it, even Tom's death.

The team talking about Tom and Liz sitting there... That was one of the worst scenes ever. Did they ever get it? Did they realize that he is dead and that she can't get over it. What a crap... Unbelievable. Honestly, it showed me again that none of them was ever really fond of Tom.

I would so love to know how much time passed. First if was 10 months, then it was rehab and then she left for how long we don't know I'm really curious...

[Fangirl49]

The dog named Kate she cleaned the crime scene like Kate. I was mad too Kris.

[ChakotaysLover]

So.... my two cents on the episode:

1: The dog was adorable! I cussed like a sailor when the bald psycho killed her. And I was happy when she burned him alive. Suitable punishment for a canine killer.

2: I liked that we saw the dark side of Liz. It makes me more interesting to me now. Liz, as she was with Tom was bring me to tears. Now we get to see how far she can go before she realizes just what she is doing. For a time we get to see Liz utilizing all the darkness she inherited from her parents.

3: Red now knows he'll have to act as her conscience. Which is an interesting turn of events for him, I'm sure. The man acts on almost all of his impulses. (Notice I said almost. He could have killed Tom many times over but he didn't)

[Miranda]

I really thought it was stupid they called the dog Kate as well. They seriously couldn't have come up with another name?

But since she said she was back, I hope that she really will be back with the task force.

[Lauren Helen Graham]

I guess she will be back with the task force... Although I got the impression she wasn't fully healed yet. Was that just me?

I really like the dark side of her, too but her pitying herself over Tom's death and it all being about 'I feel so bad because he is dead' stuff just stinks. Not my taste when it comes to a show. She should have mourned and at one point she has to move on.

[ChakotaysLover]

I don't think she's gonna go back to the task Force..... not yet at least. Not until she finds the people responsible for killing Tom. If she does.... whatever.

[Fangirl49]

Originally Posted by Lauren Helen Graham (View Post) I guess she will be back with the task force... Although I got the impression she wasn't fully healed yet. Was that just me? I really like the dark side of her, too but her pitying herself over Tom's death and it all being about 'I feel so bad because he is dead' stuff just stinks. Not my taste when it comes to a show. She should have mourned and at one point she has to move on.

Kris, my opinion exactly. Maybe that's why I'm thinking of Ressler losing Audrey and his actions by throwing himself into his job. She's had a long time to deal with this and he thinking a little more normal. I can see this make her tough and strong... but not angry and bitter.

[~Janice~]

I thought the episode was pretty good even though it was mostly Liz. I hope she gets back with the task force too and not go rogue on her quest for revenge for Tom. I don't understand why Agnes went with Scottie either, I think it should have been Red